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	<title>Comments on: The Rays&#8217; Success Is Bad For Baseball</title>
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	<description>Goes Down Easy With Little Or No Aftertaste</description>
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		<title>By: PaulW</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6748</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6748</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s how I see it.  If the Rays do win it all, it could bring 26-27 other baseball owners around to thinking &quot;Hey, instead of wasting $40 million on an aging marquee name that will be more injury-prone and well past his prime, I can spend $10 million on developing 4 to 6 young guns into a long-term winner!&quot;  Even the Yanks and the BoSox could start realizing they don&#039;t need to waste millions on free agency, and bring wages down accordingly.  It&#039;ll keep the small market teams from wasting their own FA money as well.

Now, this could affect that &#039;luxury tax&#039; system in place where the big-money teams (yanks, cough) pay a tax based on payroll: if the payroll drops enough, no more tax revenue, and the small market teams lose that revenue.  So hopefully it&#039;ll force the teams down the road to establish a more equitable and effective revenue-sharing system...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s how I see it.  If the Rays do win it all, it could bring 26-27 other baseball owners around to thinking &#8220;Hey, instead of wasting $40 million on an aging marquee name that will be more injury-prone and well past his prime, I can spend $10 million on developing 4 to 6 young guns into a long-term winner!&#8221;  Even the Yanks and the BoSox could start realizing they don&#8217;t need to waste millions on free agency, and bring wages down accordingly.  It&#8217;ll keep the small market teams from wasting their own FA money as well.</p>
<p>Now, this could affect that &#8216;luxury tax&#8217; system in place where the big-money teams (yanks, cough) pay a tax based on payroll: if the payroll drops enough, no more tax revenue, and the small market teams lose that revenue.  So hopefully it&#8217;ll force the teams down the road to establish a more equitable and effective revenue-sharing system&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: sgt.adams</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6744</link>
		<dc:creator>sgt.adams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 02:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6744</guid>
		<description>Hold on just one minute Will N.  I usually don&#039;t post on these, but did you really just try to justify that these guys have ever earned millions of dollars to go play a game?!?!  Lets be honest here.  Disregaurd the fact that I, being a member of the military, along with my other brothers in arms are grossly underpaid for putting our lives on line (I don&#039;t care if you agree with why we are where we are) what about all the other civil servents who are in the same postion such as police officers, teachers, fire fighters, and so on.  Don&#039;t tell me that getting paid more money in one day than the average American because you are good a swinging a bat or catching a ball (talking about pretty much every &quot;sports star&quot; here) is justified in any way.  Your post, much like what I imagine your general opnions to be, are a farce.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hold on just one minute Will N.  I usually don&#8217;t post on these, but did you really just try to justify that these guys have ever earned millions of dollars to go play a game?!?!  Lets be honest here.  Disregaurd the fact that I, being a member of the military, along with my other brothers in arms are grossly underpaid for putting our lives on line (I don&#8217;t care if you agree with why we are where we are) what about all the other civil servents who are in the same postion such as police officers, teachers, fire fighters, and so on.  Don&#8217;t tell me that getting paid more money in one day than the average American because you are good a swinging a bat or catching a ball (talking about pretty much every &#8220;sports star&#8221; here) is justified in any way.  Your post, much like what I imagine your general opnions to be, are a farce.</p>
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		<title>By: rtl</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6742</link>
		<dc:creator>rtl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6742</guid>
		<description>You lost me with your comment:

To borrow from Senator Obama and the subsequent fear-mongering reaction to his comments, we need to “spread the wealth around” in baseball.

So to disagree is &quot;fear mongering&quot;?  Sounds more like you&#039;re into fascism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You lost me with your comment:</p>
<p>To borrow from Senator Obama and the subsequent fear-mongering reaction to his comments, we need to “spread the wealth around” in baseball.</p>
<p>So to disagree is &#8220;fear mongering&#8221;?  Sounds more like you&#8217;re into fascism.</p>
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		<title>By: kevin</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6741</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6741</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t think that the revenue sharing amounts are hidden.  a simple google search will find them for you.

for example, 2001:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1333

(i&#039;d look more, but i&#039;m at work).

the idea of a &quot;salary floor&quot; is one of the silliest things i&#039;ve ever heard.  

2008 Florida Marlins: 84-77, $21 million payroll.

2008 Atlanta Braves: 72-90, $102 million payroll.

Teams like the Marlins are trying to compete the best way they know how; by getting a nucleus of younger players that can play.  Their revenue is in line with their payroll.

Teams like the Braves can afford higher spending because there are substantially more baseball fans that attend games in Atlanta then there are in Miami.

But then you get owners like Peter Angelos, who simply loves to complain about how hard it is to compete in the AL East.  No one is telling Angelos he needs to spend big bucks.  What Orioles fans want (and I&#039;m sure it&#039;s the same in places like San Diego and Pittsburgh) is to admit that you&#039;ve been &quot;rebuilding&quot; for 10 years (or more) now, and it&#039;s time to try something different.

You can&#039;t just look at payroll as the measure of whether a team is trying to win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t think that the revenue sharing amounts are hidden.  a simple google search will find them for you.</p>
<p>for example, 2001:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1333" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1333</a></p>
<p>(i&#8217;d look more, but i&#8217;m at work).</p>
<p>the idea of a &#8220;salary floor&#8221; is one of the silliest things i&#8217;ve ever heard.  </p>
<p>2008 Florida Marlins: 84-77, $21 million payroll.</p>
<p>2008 Atlanta Braves: 72-90, $102 million payroll.</p>
<p>Teams like the Marlins are trying to compete the best way they know how; by getting a nucleus of younger players that can play.  Their revenue is in line with their payroll.</p>
<p>Teams like the Braves can afford higher spending because there are substantially more baseball fans that attend games in Atlanta then there are in Miami.</p>
<p>But then you get owners like Peter Angelos, who simply loves to complain about how hard it is to compete in the AL East.  No one is telling Angelos he needs to spend big bucks.  What Orioles fans want (and I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s the same in places like San Diego and Pittsburgh) is to admit that you&#8217;ve been &#8220;rebuilding&#8221; for 10 years (or more) now, and it&#8217;s time to try something different.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t just look at payroll as the measure of whether a team is trying to win.</p>
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		<title>By: jose cantu rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6737</link>
		<dc:creator>jose cantu rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6737</guid>
		<description>Yes, a salary floor would fix a lot of this.  You can&#039;t sit at the table to play poker if you&#039;re never going to throw in to the pot and fold your hand all the time.

Also, as fans we are beat over the head over and over again with the amount of player salaries and bonuses.  This only works to serve the owners, as they can cite the high salaries as the reason for high prices for tickets, beer, parking, gear, etc.  This also works to turn the fans against the players, b/c the players are so rich, etc.  I&#039;d rather have the money go to the players.  I never bought a ticket to see the owner.

Owners should have to publish the amount of money they spend on the draft, development and minor leagues.  They should also have to publish the amount of revenue sharing money they receive, which is basically they&#039;re start up money for the season before they sell one ticket or get any localTV money.  But all we&#039;re ever goinig to hear about is how much the players make and how much it costs to go to the game.

Most people like to eat hamburgers and sausage, NO ONE wants to know how it&#039;s made.  Go Rays!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, a salary floor would fix a lot of this.  You can&#8217;t sit at the table to play poker if you&#8217;re never going to throw in to the pot and fold your hand all the time.</p>
<p>Also, as fans we are beat over the head over and over again with the amount of player salaries and bonuses.  This only works to serve the owners, as they can cite the high salaries as the reason for high prices for tickets, beer, parking, gear, etc.  This also works to turn the fans against the players, b/c the players are so rich, etc.  I&#8217;d rather have the money go to the players.  I never bought a ticket to see the owner.</p>
<p>Owners should have to publish the amount of money they spend on the draft, development and minor leagues.  They should also have to publish the amount of revenue sharing money they receive, which is basically they&#8217;re start up money for the season before they sell one ticket or get any localTV money.  But all we&#8217;re ever goinig to hear about is how much the players make and how much it costs to go to the game.</p>
<p>Most people like to eat hamburgers and sausage, NO ONE wants to know how it&#8217;s made.  Go Rays!</p>
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		<title>By: Jersey</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6736</link>
		<dc:creator>Jersey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6736</guid>
		<description>Holy F the words are so small and numerous</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy F the words are so small and numerous</p>
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		<title>By: Tom A</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6733</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6733</guid>
		<description>Steve,

Interesting point, but I think you might be mistaken on a couple of points.

First, I do not think the owners are going to abandon those teams. They would still be making money on them in that situation and even though they might have to adjust their profit margins, the return on investment of owning a MLB team is still fantastic compared to a lot of other businesses. Also, why should the bottom teams in the league be able to gross such massive profit margins percentage-wise on their teams failings while organizations like the Red Sox, the Yankees, and even the Tigers, Dodgers, or Brewers invest more money in having successful teams. Admittedly, these teams are making more money total in profits, but you can argue that this is because they are investing more (even if some, like Milwaukee, are in smaller markets).

Second, all you would have to mandate is that they spend the money allotted to them on what that money was given to them for: to make them more competitive. I don&#039;t think we would be asking them to do anything except what they are already expected to do. This money was never intended to be pocketed in the first place. It was meant to increase competition in baseball (whereby MLB is more popular and revenues go up).

I don&#039;t think attacking the owners for pocketing this money is unreasonable at all. I can&#039;t blame them for pocketing it when no-one enforces it otherwise. But, these revenue sharing rules were put into effect to increase competitive balance and allow these teams to invest the resources necessary to make them competitive.

I think the original point is right to say that these teams will likely not be competitive for as consistent a time as NY, Chicago, Boston, or LA, but baseball does not need this to be successful. The Brewers, Rays, Twins, and Rockies have shown the last few years that teams that manage their resources correctly can compete with limited salaries and draw attendance (see Brewers especially). Of course they will have a smaller margin for error, but on the flip side, NY&#039;s $200M payroll and Detroit&#039;s $150M didn&#039;t do them a lot of good this year either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Interesting point, but I think you might be mistaken on a couple of points.</p>
<p>First, I do not think the owners are going to abandon those teams. They would still be making money on them in that situation and even though they might have to adjust their profit margins, the return on investment of owning a MLB team is still fantastic compared to a lot of other businesses. Also, why should the bottom teams in the league be able to gross such massive profit margins percentage-wise on their teams failings while organizations like the Red Sox, the Yankees, and even the Tigers, Dodgers, or Brewers invest more money in having successful teams. Admittedly, these teams are making more money total in profits, but you can argue that this is because they are investing more (even if some, like Milwaukee, are in smaller markets).</p>
<p>Second, all you would have to mandate is that they spend the money allotted to them on what that money was given to them for: to make them more competitive. I don&#8217;t think we would be asking them to do anything except what they are already expected to do. This money was never intended to be pocketed in the first place. It was meant to increase competition in baseball (whereby MLB is more popular and revenues go up).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think attacking the owners for pocketing this money is unreasonable at all. I can&#8217;t blame them for pocketing it when no-one enforces it otherwise. But, these revenue sharing rules were put into effect to increase competitive balance and allow these teams to invest the resources necessary to make them competitive.</p>
<p>I think the original point is right to say that these teams will likely not be competitive for as consistent a time as NY, Chicago, Boston, or LA, but baseball does not need this to be successful. The Brewers, Rays, Twins, and Rockies have shown the last few years that teams that manage their resources correctly can compete with limited salaries and draw attendance (see Brewers especially). Of course they will have a smaller margin for error, but on the flip side, NY&#8217;s $200M payroll and Detroit&#8217;s $150M didn&#8217;t do them a lot of good this year either.</p>
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		<title>By: Signal to Noise</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6732</link>
		<dc:creator>Signal to Noise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6732</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to have to throw my hat in with the &quot;disagree&quot; group.

The Rays are good for baseball because, by being well run and locking up their young talent to extensions early, they are less likely to go the fire sale route when the series is done. If that&#039;s the case and the majority of the team&#039;s talent stays in Tampa, it provides even less of an excuse to ownership groups in Pittsburgh, KC, Miami, Baltimore and other markets to not get their ducks in a row.

The bigger problem right now isn&#039;t the super-rich teams; it&#039;s the ones who refuse to do anything with the money they do have. Wayne Huizenga and Jeffrey Loria would have found ways to justify their Marlins fire sales even if there had been more revenue equality at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to have to throw my hat in with the &#8220;disagree&#8221; group.</p>
<p>The Rays are good for baseball because, by being well run and locking up their young talent to extensions early, they are less likely to go the fire sale route when the series is done. If that&#8217;s the case and the majority of the team&#8217;s talent stays in Tampa, it provides even less of an excuse to ownership groups in Pittsburgh, KC, Miami, Baltimore and other markets to not get their ducks in a row.</p>
<p>The bigger problem right now isn&#8217;t the super-rich teams; it&#8217;s the ones who refuse to do anything with the money they do have. Wayne Huizenga and Jeffrey Loria would have found ways to justify their Marlins fire sales even if there had been more revenue equality at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve M</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6731</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6731</guid>
		<description>Only creating a salary floor likely does nothing but cause the owners to abandon the smaller market teams.  The money teams get from the MLB revenue sharing is still insignificant when compared to total payrolls, and teams budget around a specific targeted profit.  If they are forced to spend more on players they likely cut down elsewhere, whether it be player development, coaching salaries, etc.  Attacking the owners for pocketing money is a strange concept since that&#039;s kind of the reason they own a team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only creating a salary floor likely does nothing but cause the owners to abandon the smaller market teams.  The money teams get from the MLB revenue sharing is still insignificant when compared to total payrolls, and teams budget around a specific targeted profit.  If they are forced to spend more on players they likely cut down elsewhere, whether it be player development, coaching salaries, etc.  Attacking the owners for pocketing money is a strange concept since that&#8217;s kind of the reason they own a team.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Al Fayed</title>
		<link>http://rumorsandrants.com/2008/10/the-rays-success-is-bad-for-baseball.html/comment-page-1#comment-6728</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Al Fayed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 17:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rumorsandrants.com/?p=3583#comment-6728</guid>
		<description>Boston is 12th in population by metro area in the US. San Diego is 18th. San Diego is closer to Bostons&#039; size than Boston is to 1/3 the size of NY or of LA. San Diego is larger than Tampa by about the same size as Boston is larger than San Diego.

It ain&#039;t the meat it&#039;s the motion.

Your team just sucks. They have a long and inglorious tradition of sucking, and they have you convinced they can&#039;t do anything about it. 

Grow up and stop whining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boston is 12th in population by metro area in the US. San Diego is 18th. San Diego is closer to Bostons&#8217; size than Boston is to 1/3 the size of NY or of LA. San Diego is larger than Tampa by about the same size as Boston is larger than San Diego.</p>
<p>It ain&#8217;t the meat it&#8217;s the motion.</p>
<p>Your team just sucks. They have a long and inglorious tradition of sucking, and they have you convinced they can&#8217;t do anything about it. </p>
<p>Grow up and stop whining.</p>
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